My Comparison of Indian Chief Vintage vs Victory Magnum Indian Motorcycle Reviews & Impressions >
Founding Member 7,820 posts V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
Ok, settle down you lot!! [biggrin] ...I know I should be comparing Magnum with Chieftain (both being hard baggers with full fairings) but since my bike is a Vintage, this will be my comparison. I have however ridden over ten different Indians, including couple of Chieftains, so I will add bits 'n' pieces about them too.

I was given a loaner while my Vintage was worked on. It was a Magnum. Here is a spoiler alert. I am not a fan Magnum... well the entire Victory fleet. There is good news but... if you own a Victory, you will definitely think an Indian is a step up in terms of mechanical refinement. In fact, there is a huge improvement in my humble opinion.

Let's start this comparison with the most obvious difference - the looks. Indian is retro and Victory is futuristic. I can't imagine there will be too many people who will find both Victory and Indian attractive. Usually, people tend to favour one of the other. I'm a retro style lover, hence my decision to purchase a Vintage, twice (but that is another story). But, I can appreciate how some people might find bikes like Magnum appealing. In fact, while I had a Magnum parked, 3 construction workers gathered around the bike and spoke favourably about it.  Since appearance is subjective, I will move on to the next most obvious difference. The engine and the gear box.

I couldn't believe these bikes were made by the same (parent) company. [eek]  The Victory 106ci engine feels crude or Indian Thunder Stroke 111ci feels considerably more refined - depending on your view. Victory develops a shake or vibration from around 1,500 - 2,300rpm in some situations - usually when a slightly higher gear was chosen and engine labouring. I don't mean lugging or stressing the engine with a 'wrong' gear. In fact, even if you used textbook perfect gear (if there is such a thing) the engine felt hesitant. Oddly, that is not the case when I blip the throttle in neutral. It is that feeling of hesitation that I dislike the most about the Victory. Unwilling to rev!

I have ridden another Victory (Cross Country) many months ago. I thought that feeling of hesitation was due to a faulty bike. Now that I have ridden my 2nd Victory, I know that wasn't faulty. They are both like that from the factory.

I should come clean and admit at this stage that Victory I had ridden were both stock. Even the exhaust was stock! That just kills me - riding a vacuum cleaner!  Maybe with a Stage 1 pipes, a better flowering air cleaner and a performance tune, it might have been different. I can only speculate. I know Victorys can sound amazing with the right set of pipes!

Then there is that clunker of a gearbox! Everybody within the same post code can hear you change gears. Not just the neutral to 1st (as in Indian) but on all other gear changes. Having said that, I find Victory gearbox easier to shift into neutral. In fact, when the bike is cold, I have failed to shift into 2nd gear at times - I ended up revving the bike in neutral thinking it went into 2nd (I must kick harder!).  With Indian, one must be precise when shifting into neutral or you could accidentally shift into 2nd gear (Update: 3 December 2016 - I had a warped clutch plates on my bike from new. It is now fixed! Indian gear box is great amd easy to shift (http://www.indianmotorcycleforum.com.au/post/clunky-gearbox-or-gears-hard-to-change-8225567)).

Steering into corners is more of an effort on Victory. My Vintage feels much more effortless to turn. I know Chieftains do have less rake (25degrees) than Vintages so they are even easier to turn in. However, in the short time I rode a Chieftain, I didn't really notice the difference between the two Indians. But Vic was very obvious as soon as I hopped on. Even on high speed sweepers, you need to get your muscles working to tame the beast! The culprit might be the narrower handlebar or the big front wheel.

Victory does some things very well. Fuel tank is HUGE!  After the fuel stop, 'distance to empty' reads 400kms+.  The best I have ever seen on my Vintage was 331kms.  In reality, Vintage can go further but I am just comparing computer display to display.  I know Scout is not a touring bike but sub-200kms range is just too painful to contemplate.    [smile]

The Magnum seats are really comfortable, more so then my Vintage seat - maybe this depends on the shape of one's rear end! [biggrin]  Seat on the Magnum also has a more prominent back stopper.  It is not a rider backrest but it stops you from slipping back.  It also hugs you in place.  I also found the floorboard placement on Victory more suited to taller riders like myself (6'2"). When I ride my Vintage, my heels rest on the front most tips of the floorboards. Otherwise my knees are bent too much (not very comfortable). There is an option of Indian Floorboard Lowering Kit but I value my lean angle too much to do that. It also helps that Victory floorboards are longer. It gives the impression that Victorys are bigger bikes then Indians - not sure if that is really the case or not.  I am reasonably sure the distance from the rider's seat to the front tip of the floorboard is longer on Magnum.

When I first hopped on a Chieftain, I felt the dash and the screen were little too close for my liking (higher windscreen is sort of 'in your face' and that probably doesn't help). Whereas, Victory didn't feel that way. Reinforcing the perception of size difference. Just to drag another brand in here for a moment. That perceived difference in size also exists between Chiefs and Harley-Davidson Softails like Road Kings or Heritage. Harleys felt a size smaller again.

I personally think the rear brake paddle on the Victory is little too low. However, I think the Indian's rear brake paddle feels little too high. Also, the performance of Victory's front and rear brakes felt less powerful compared with Indian brakes. Either that or Vics are calibrated to require more force to stop.  There is a misperception that brake paddle might hit the floorboard as well and run out of travel.

Victory's hard bags are huge! They are like a mini Tardis. I think they might be the highest capacity hard saddle bags of any motorcycles. Sure, Roadmaster can carry more but that's due to having the 3rd top box.

For some reason, on the day I took out a Chieftain, my head got buffeted non-stop. Anything from 50kms onwards, I was shaking like a long tailed cat in a roomful of rocking chairs. I tried playing with windscreen height control but nothing helped. My torso might be oddly tall or it was my open face helmet, not sure. I would like to try another Chieftain one day with a different screen. Maybe one with curled tips. I was getting buffeted on Magnum too but not as badly. It was still unpleasant. I have no issues when I ride my Vintage naked! (I'm referring to my preference to ride without a screen).

Magnum comes with factory projector type LED headlight. Similar in appearance to Harley's Daylight Makers. By comparison, Indian's reflector type LED headlights are a disappointment. The Indian designers may have chosen reflector type as they appear more traditional but at the sacrifice of light performance.

The cruise control on all Victorys are a generation older (mechanical) and felt like an afterthought - it probably was. Whereas, Indians are ride-by-wire so it can incorporate electronically actuated cruise controls that are more accurate - that is, they are able to maintain a set speed with less variance.

By the way, I'm not sure if a dealer forgot to remove this but the Magnum I've ridden had a 1.5-inch stick the size of your small finger attached underneath the floorboards. As you lean the bike over, they touch the road surface first and let you know you are leaning!  First time it happened, it scared the cr@p out of me! In the past, other Victory riders out cornered me and I understood Vics to have a great lean angle... well, not my loaner. I had to ride like a L-Plater on black ice! After it scrapped couple of times, I backed off!  Anyone with Harley softtail will know how this feels!  [biggrin]  I'm not sure why Magnum came with those scrape sticks - they could have been much shorter.

For good or bad, Magnum handlebar can turn more than my Vintage. In everyday riding, I never felt that I wanted my handlebar to turn more so it's just an observation.

The Magnum dash shows 1,000rpm at idle but the bike does not sound like it is that high.  I will assume the tachometer is off at idle.

After getting use to riding an Indian with keyless fob, I must confess to having walked off more than on one occasion with a key still left in the ignition.  It did take me a 'little while' to reprogram my brains to take the key.

As my conclusion, I will say that Indians are far more refined motorcycles then Victories.  I guess if you factor in the price difference, I guess it sort of works out... Victory is about $20k and Chieftain $35K. Will I buy a Victory?  I will reserve my judgement until I try a Victory with Stage 1 pipes, high flow air cleaner and other bolt on mods.  If those mods gets rid of that engine hesitation, a 'maybe'!  But while Indians are available, Victory will not be on my short list.
Melbourne, Victoria
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crash Founding Member 2,565 posts
crash
See, it's wasn't that hard now was it [biggrin] [biggrin]
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
crash wrote:
See, it's wasn't that hard now was it [biggrin] [biggrin]

That is all you are going to say??? [bawl]
Melbourne, Victoria
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Robbo Founding Member 1,178 posts
Robbo
Interesting post, thanks!
I have not ridden a Victory but I somehow would have expected them to have some sort of 'family resemblance' to Indians in feel. Clearly not!
2017 Dark Horse  - Stage 2, Rush Pipes

Location - Perth, Western Australia
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dutch Full Member 394 posts
dutch
By the time I was getting enough of my Harley that in 3 years ( so many reason the list is to long) I rode a Victory to test it was a Cross roads and it blew my head what a bike compare with the farm equipment I was riding for 3 years the only thing I did not like was the a.. end somebody must had had some good drugs so I decided to wait what Indian would be as they had that teaser on the internet. I am more then happy that I waited and got my Vintage no looking back but if it was not for that a.. end and the drug use from that guy involved I would be riding a Victory now 
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
dutch wrote:
...I decided to wait what Indian would be as they had that teaser on the internet. I am more then happy that I waited and got my Vintage no looking back but if it was not for that a.. end and the drug use from that guy involved I would be riding a Victory now 

I know what you mean Dutch.  Despite my review, Victory is not bad.  Little bit of tweaking here and there and I think it could be a bike I can ride BUT I will not love it as much as my Indian.

(I feel that we are about to go off topic but...)

Well Harley just released their 9th engine in 113 years.  And the last engine, Twin Cam, was in service for 18 years!  [eek]   I know engines cost a sh!tload of money to develop but I would have thought 7 - 10 years would be their limit.  I guess now with Euro emissions, manufacturers will have to release engines more frequently.  My long way of saying, it is about time Harley released a new engine AND that will keep Indian honest too!  Great for us, consumers.

I'm coming back to your comment Dutch.  Even with the new engine, Harleys are behind Indians in other areas: braking, lean angle, softail rear suspension, design that hasn't changed since... since... I can't remember!   [biggrin]

If Indian didn't exist... maybe I might have tried Victory.  The thing is, until Indian launch in AU, I never knew Victory was an American V-Twin bike.
Melbourne, Victoria
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Airhead Full Member 153 posts
Airhead
It's interesting isn't it, the first year Victory were released I was at Uralla with some mates on the way to or from a rally when a bloke and his wife stopped amidst our bikes on a Victory with loud pipes.  I liked it, the only thing I wasn't keen on was the "106 Freedom" script etched into the engine cover.  I thought this was way too American.  Fast forward 10 or so years and one of the styling things I love about Indians is their engine covers.  No complaints at all.

I had planned that my next new bike was going to be a RoadKing.  I had ridden many of them and liked the style/performance/practicality.  Last year I did a good tour of France with a mate who lives in London, he has three older Harleys and I enjoyed riding his heavily modified Fatboy. 

Then out of interest I started looking at Indians on the net.  Got interested enough to take a Chief Vintage for a test ride eight months ago.  It had a stage 1 set up and I just loved it.  Yes, similar to a RoadKing but just better, it didn't scrape unless really provoked in anger through a tight corner, motor had the raw feel and sound but didn't vibrate like a wacker packer.  It was bigger, looked sensational and had tan leather seats.  Yes, real freaking leather!  And it had more grunt and felt fantastic.

Then I saw in the flesh a Blue Diamond Roadmaster.  And here I am now.

sorry for going so far off topic.
I like bluegrass, banjos and motorcycles.
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crash Founding Member 2,565 posts
crash
Funny, I was talking to a guy yesterday who is the proud owner of a 2008 fatbob with 6k on the dial.  He was saying "if you ride a victory you will own one".  Interesting comment from a Harley owner that has not ridden an Indian yet (a vague attempt at keeping on topic [biggrin] )
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
crash wrote:
talking to a guy yesterday who is the proud owner of a 2008 fatbob with 6k on the dial.

Assuming he owned his bike for 7 - 8 years and only done 6,000kms (< 1,000kms per year)???  [eek]  ...he must own other bikes!  Either way, it is interesting he said that about Vics.
Melbourne, Victoria
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crash Founding Member 2,565 posts
crash
I think that this is merely a toy for this guy - he was around our place doing some plumbing work yesterday.  Said he had it from new.  I guess he got dragged into the lifestyle thing - I don't think it has quite worked for him though.  He would be what I would call a "dry weather weekender" - nothing wrong with that - his choice.
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
I know Harley HOG chapters are very active.  1,000kms a year would be 2 to 3 HOG rides per year!!

I have heard of people wanting to keep low kms on their bikes so their resale values are better but...   [crazy] [confused]
Melbourne, Victoria
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
UPDATE: 15 NOVEMBER 2016

As my bike is getting a spa treatment at 16,000kms... I was given a Victory Judge to ride...  I thought, here we go again.  But no!  I'm enjoying it.  This gear box shifts smoothly, engine doesn't have that hesitation I have experienced on my two previous Victory bikes.

It does have blacked out 'Cobra' 2-in-to-1 (not in this picture) pipes so it sounds good too.  I am guessing it has Stage 1 tune?  The appearance is not my thing... it is blue and white with BIG '106' number on the sides.

The handlebar is also a bit of a reach... you have to roll your shoulders forward and really reach for the handlebar (no big deal... just a different sitting position).  Oddly, foot pegs not forward enough for me... probably for most people.  If you look in the picture, you will see that pegs are right in the centre of the tank... it could have been further forward.

This bike sits very low on very firm suspension.  Any vertically challenged riders will have no issues 'walking' this bike.  

This bike has changed my opinion about Victory for sure.


victory-judge.jpg 


Melbourne, Victoria
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
Update: 17 November 2016

I will try and take a photo if anyone is interested but the foot pegs are mounted on a bracket that is attached to the bike frame... unfortunately, that bracket is too low and too wide.  I am scraping them on the road as I lean.  I had a quick look and there is no way to adjust them up.

I know my Vintage drags floorboards sometimes, especially if the rear pre-load is left on standard settings (rear end is lower) but that is not that common.  I know this Victory is real firm on suspension side of things so I can't imagine I could adjust any further.  When I first leaned over in Victory Judge... I assumed the first point of contact would be the tips of the foot pegs but no... it was the bracket - which is much more solid and there is no give/flex.
Melbourne, Victoria
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CHF10 Senior Member 2,396 posts
CHF10
Great review! I'll have to write the story of my decision making process at some point.

But FWIW, I LOVE the look of my Chieftain. I LOVE the look of the Magnum. I LOVE the look of the Street Glide Special. [biggrin] I think I'm an anomoly.
Live free or die!
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
Kristopher wrote:
Great review! I'll have to write the story of my decision making process at some point.  But FWIW, I LOVE the look of my Chieftain. I LOVE the look of the Magnum. I LOVE the look of the Street Glide Special. [biggrin] I think I'm an anomoly.
That is great that you are balanced with your 'love'.  😝    You obviously love your American V-Twins and who can blame you?  

Please do write up your 'decision making process' when you get a chance.  Our forum members love reading reviews and personal stories.  We have all been there at one time or another AND there are many 'not yet Indian riders' who reads those stories to help them decide too.  
Melbourne, Victoria
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Airhead Full Member 153 posts
Airhead
I like the look of the Judge, maybe they will be going real cheap soon.
I like bluegrass, banjos and motorcycles.
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V-Twin Founding Member 7,820 posts
V-Twin
Airhead wrote:
I like the look of the Judge, maybe they will be going real cheap soon.
I have heard that Australia is not following the USA market and slash 60%+ move them.  Instead, they are looking at 20%-30% range.  Maybe, towards the end to move the less popular bike, they might want to talk.  😉
Melbourne, Victoria
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