Select Edge
Hello

I have always struggled with hot temperatures and seem to run warmer than most people around me all of the time and always the first to start sweating on hot days. 

Anyway I must wear a full face helmet as I feel much safer in one and want the protection of one should I come off the bike but would like to know if riding with a full face helmet without the main shield fitted is it legal in Australia?

My current helmet is a HJC IS MAX 2 modular and does have an internal sun visor but not sure if is as good as protection for my eyes vs the front shield, would debris smash the internal sun visor if it flicked up off the road and hit it?  Check out my helmet with video review at the following weblink, but just not sure if it is even legal just to rely on the internal sun visor only when riding?

https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/hjc-is-max-2-helmet-solid

If you look at the following photo where the rider has a full face helmet and goggles could also be an option for me but not sure on the legalities of this in Australia on public roads? is this helmet setup legal in australia.png 
I need to do whatever I can to get some extra ventilation into my helmet.
Select Edge Motorcycle Accessories, our brands include Corbin Saddles, Dean Speed Customs, Ends Cuoio leather saddlebags, Nitron Suspension and YSS Shocks http://www.selectedge.com.au
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Sean Judd

My understanding is that it's one of those things that is illegal, however you'd be extremely unlikely to be fined for it. However that's based on the helmet laws of old, they changed a few years back to allow helmets on the road other than just the Australian Standards complied helmets. 

Basically the helmet must be as submitted, which means it must have an original visor, whether it be clear or tinted. The visor is included in the testing and forms part of the compliance. So even replacing it with non oem/ an aftermarket visor is illegal, but as I said no cop is going to fine you for having an aftermarket visor, unless it's something extremely obvious. 

Current 2018 Chieftain

Past 2016 Scout

Future I'm thinking old School 40s Chief. 

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OzOldie
Why not use a modular helmet - as it's designed to flip up and back behind your head, you are legal to ride with the face/chin open or closed.

Open = same as open face helmet, use it in really hot slow conditions, slow traffic, city.
Closed = same as full face, use it on a long country ride where you get lots of breeze.

Try one on, you might like it.
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V-Twin
Just to add to the mix of discussions, I wear an open face (3/4) helmet.  My helmet also comes with sun visor that retracts.  It is much a good fit that it was good enough to wear on the highway without the windshield.  Now that I ride with windshield, even better.

I think the goggles would be much hotter than a flip up visor as hot air sits on your face.  

The age of the helmet may also be a factor.  My wife rides with full face Shoei helmet.  After 5 years, I got her a new Shoei helmet of similar price.  The new helmet is lighter and has better ventilation and quieter.

Obviously, I can’t give you a definitive answer here but hopefully it helps you to assess various options.
Let's be kind to one another.
Melbourne, Victoria
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Select Edge
Thanks for all the responses, as Sean Judd says it is going to be very rare that I am fined for an issue like this.  To Ozoldie, as per my opening post I do use a modular helmet and wasn't aware I could legally ride with it open and this makes a world of difference as I would only have to open it for like 10 seconds to cool down again.  Hi V-Twin, yes I do see your point about the goggles now that you mention it could create other heat issues, my helmet is basically brand new as I only received it I think in late November 2018.  I have supplied a picture of me with my helmet on for those of you that wish to laugh at me!

IMG_20181107_182023.jpg
Select Edge Motorcycle Accessories, our brands include Corbin Saddles, Dean Speed Customs, Ends Cuoio leather saddlebags, Nitron Suspension and YSS Shocks http://www.selectedge.com.au
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OzOldie
Sorry, musta had a blind and dumb moment when I read the post, missed that bit...  I do have total DUUUH moments!!

Yes, they are designed to be worn as either open face or full face. You can crack them open when you stop at lights or, if you need, flip the chin bar all the way back over for 30 secs or so then flip it back again - most can be done with one hand.

You are less likely to be stopped (if at all) with either way you go - so long as you have eye protection (goggles), you are fulfilling the legal requirements.

I think V is right about the goggles though - once on they are there, it's hard to move them while riding (you need two hands or they get skewed on your face). Close to your skin = sweat a lot (like I do under my specs!)
A visor can be cracked open or flipped up for a while (like the modular)  (I like the modular ones are they flip right over out the way.)
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Select Edge
Been allowed to ride with my modular helmet in an open position feels like farting without underpants in an elevator, somewhat very naughty!  I will have to try it...
Select Edge Motorcycle Accessories, our brands include Corbin Saddles, Dean Speed Customs, Ends Cuoio leather saddlebags, Nitron Suspension and YSS Shocks http://www.selectedge.com.au
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CHF10

Just rode 5+ hours in 40 - 45 degree heat last week in this:

[IMG-2538]

Had the chrome visor on which keeps the heat on the face down a lot more than clear. Having the visor open a notch when I wanted to cool my face down worked a treat. Also well ventilated across the top. I was still a bit sweaty in it because it was so bloody hot! But it's impressive just how cool it was. To touch the outside of it when I stopped, you'd cook an egg on it easily! Hahaha! The foam acts as an insulator - it'd be hotter riding with no helmet!

Ironically, it's cooler than my open face helmet which has ZERO ventilation.

[IMG-3411]

It's also not uncommon in the nanny police state (Victoria) to get pulled over for visor.

Live free or die!
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twodogs
Shark Evoline 3, can be used as full face or open face
Chromeburner
2015 Roadmaster (blood & custard) 
IMRG member #AU100257
Galston, NSW Oz
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CHF10

Love the Shark! I would have bought one if they fit my head. They're a more round design and I have a more oval shape. Shoei are the only helmets that really fit me properly and super comfy.

But that Shark is AWESOME!

Live free or die!
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Dr.Shifty
My guess is that the HJC is not compliant with the chin piece up. It sits quite a long way off the helmet body and can catch on anything in the event of a crash. I'd be chasing this up with HJC before riding with it open. And it looks like it would also cause some head wobbling and/or neck strain sitting up in the airflow like that.

I've got the Shark Evoline 3 and it is compliant chin up or chin down. The chin piece sits over the back of the helmet and is a snug fit so it doesn't get in the way of airflow at speed - it's actually smoother with it over the back as it acts like a spoiler that smooths the air off the back and reduces turbulence. It has an internal sunscreen just as with the HJC. The sunscreen has to be compliant with ADR regs, just as the outer shield, so a stone hitting it should not break it - don't choose a large stone. 🙂

The pic you have of the guy with goggles is not designed for a face shield. The studs across the top are for a peak and goggles are the standard for this kind of helmet, same as motocross helmets.

If the main issue is heat you might look at how to lower body temperature rather than head temp.  Do you ride with a ventilated jacket? What about a water cooled vest underneath? I have one of these and as long as there is airflow over it I'm a lot cooler.
https://coolweave.com.au/MCV.htm

And a note about being booked for helmet stuff. There used to be an issue with compliance stickers when going interstate as each state required different standards. You could be legal in SA but cross over into NSW and you're no longer legal. This got fixed a few years ago when all states agreed to recognise all standards as OK. My Evoline has a European sticker, which was a surprise when I bought it.

Apart from the GoPro minefield, the only thing I've heard about recently for helmet offenses is wearing a tinted visor at night time.
Cheers, Kim.

From Woodrising (no, nobody else has heard of it either)
Rides a Springfield Dark Horse
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tallackn

I carry clear visor inside my backpack so that if I am caught out late I can unclip tinted one and replace with clear.

I'm pretty confident that if I stood before a magistrate or a judge with that logic they'd slap the public prosecutor for wasting the courts time.

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Sean Judd
tallackn wrote:

I carry clear visor inside my backpack so that if I am caught out late I can unclip tinted one and replace with clear.

I'm pretty confident that if I stood before a magistrate or a judge with that logic they'd slap the public prosecutor for wasting the courts time.

The stupid thing is that you are allowed to wear a tinted visor, however it must be an OEM visor and within the standards. 

So provided you don't have an overly dark visor, when asked the question 'so did you buy this visor separately' your answer should always be - Nope, this is how it came, that's a manufacturers visor. 

 

There is so much stupidity around helmet laws in Australia, even reading one article last night that pointed out that the clear protective coating over your brand new visor forms part of the compliance, so the second you remove that, which you have to in order to see, your helmet becomes illegal. 

Current 2018 Chieftain

Past 2016 Scout

Future I'm thinking old School 40s Chief. 

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tallackn

@Sean Judd

fp200.gif 

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OzOldie
This was interesting:

https://motorbikewriter.com/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-helmet-laws/

Can I wear a camera or bluetooth unit on my helmet?

Neither AS1698 nor UNECE 22.05 have been updated to specify accessory attachment methods. It is not legal to modify a helmet shell to fit an attachment such as drilling holes. but if it is clamped or stuck on with the provided attachments, it should be ok. The position in Victoria is still in doubt.

NSW and Victorian police improperly interpreted the AS1698 specification to determine accessories were illegal on the basis they were rigid external projections protruding more than 5mm beyond the helmet shell. NSW police have been instructed by the Police Commissioner to stop issuing infringement notices for accessories.

A recent helmet camera fine was dismissed in Victoria, but only on the grounds that the laws were too difficult for the public to access, not on the applicable laws. If the Victorian laws become more readily available, there could be concerns for riders in Victoria. Some NSW and Victorian police may still improperly interpret any change to a helmet as making it non-compliant. The argument that compliance only applies at the point of sale has still not been proved.

The ACT government has ratified the legality of helmet cameras and Bluetooth units, while States such as Queensland and Western Australia do not see it as an issue. Meanwhile, bike cops in all states have cameras and Bluetooth units attached to their helmets.

Not 100% relevant to this post but it goes to show how fked up Oz helmet laws are.

And, somewhat more relevant:

9 Are tinted visors and goggles legal?

AS1698 and UNECE 22.05 specify limits on visible light transmittance (VLT) for tinted visors, neither specification has been updated to cover modern optical treatments or internal visors. AS1698 allowable tinting is 50-85% VLT, UNECE 22.05 allowable tinting is  50-80% VLT. Victorian police withdrew a non-compliant helmet fine against a rider for having a tinted visor. However, because it didn’t go to court for a decision, there is no test case and no reason why police can’t continue to interpret the law that way. The ACT is the only government that has specifically ratified internal tinted visors. There have been very few examples of riders being fined, but it makes sense not to wear a tinted visor at night. Meanwhile, the legality of replacement tinted visors is still open to interpretation. Goggles are legal on helmets which are designed for use with goggles. If they are not tinted, there is no problem with helmet goggles.

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Dr.Shifty
It's been a long time since I've heard of anyone being fined for a tinted visor in daytime, but there was a spate of fines some years ago when the iridium visors started to become popular. Those fines were probably issued on the light transmittance regs because with the very dark mirror look they seem to be harder to see through than they really are.

I sometimes wonder if there are coppers who would like to fine people who wear those funny helmet covers like furry animals that we sometimes see on toy runs.
Cheers, Kim.

From Woodrising (no, nobody else has heard of it either)
Rides a Springfield Dark Horse
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OzOldie
Part of the problem is that there are cops who "do the right thing" and there are cops who "love and adore their power" - "cops" and "ankles".

In the 70s and early 80s there were lots of ankles about but they seem to have faded a little now (still plenty about but they tend to congregate in NSW or Qld)  (WA seems OK)
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