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1854cc
Someone explain to me why American assembled is better then assembled in Poland.  I think Polish people are as capable as American folk and it comes down to process management and QA.  I would buy an Polish assembled bike UNLESS someone provides EVIDENCE that shows that they are built inferior to American.   Mind you I am not in the market for a new bike for a looooonnnnng time.
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Baross
Well put. We are all humans - the location of manufacture doesn't matter if people are trained to do the job well.

Royal Enfield showed their 800cc V twin cruiser concept at the recent EICMA show. The project is a collaboration with Polaris who have designed the motor. It's an interesting bike with a cantilever front end. RE are angling to be a global manufactured. The Indian Indian may be just around the corner folks.
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CHF10
Source? 
Live free or die!
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crash
Baross wrote:
Well put. We are all humans - the location of manufacture doesn't matter if people are trained to do the job well.

Royal Enfield showed their 800cc V twin cruiser concept at the recent EICMA show. The project is a collaboration with Polaris who have designed the motor. It's an interesting bike with a cantilever front end. RE are angling to be a global manufactured. The Indian Indian may be just around the corner folks.

1854cc wrote:
Someone explain to me why American assembled is better then assembled in Poland.  I think Polish people are as capable as American folk and it comes down to process management and QA.  I would buy an Polish assembled bike UNLESS someone provides EVIDENCE that shows that they are built inferior to American.   Mind you I am not in the market for a new bike for a looooonnnnng time.


I am not sure that this thread is specifically about the ability of humans to perform tricks as a trained monkey would do - or at least it's not for me. 
You are both 100% correct - there is no difference between a person in USA, India, Poland, Taiwan or China performing the work - we (the collective we as in humans) are all capable of doing the work. 
The point (that I see) is that the brand is "marketed" as being "built in the USA", Genuine USA product (rah, rah, rah) and as a result it is commanding a premium $ value - the reason that it is commanding a premium $ value is because it is special, unique and is supporting a labour market that is commanding a fair wage for it's employees (presumably), its about supporting manufacturing in a location where the manufacturer has to compensate its workers properly.  It does not use slave labour to create it's products (not that I am suggesting that any other country is or will be).  So the idea that a brand begin marketed as being built in the USA made in Poland, India, China or wherever seems to fly in the face of the brand - I have a picture on my desktop that shows the bikes in the shop with signs on them saying "American Muscle". Now I don't really care where the bike is made!! having said that, would I buy and Indian Indian (or polish indian) - my answer would have to be "it depends".  If the product were priced accordingly and marketed accordingly and it suited my requirements then my answer would have to be "sure, why not" but if the brand continues to be marketed as an "American muscle bike" (even if its only by association) and still command the same $ value, then sadly I would have to say no.

But then again - people have been buying an American brand product for years and they are manufactured in China and they can't get enough of it (APPLE) and they are happy to pay a premium for it as well - go figure.

So, here is the question I guess, what is the difference between an "Indian" motorcycle and the equivalent "Kymco" motorcycle.  They both have motors, they both have warranties, they both have seats, handlebars, tyres and all the other mod con's that you would like to see on a motorcycle - you would say the difference is the styling, the quality, the materials used, they way they are put together etc. etc.  I would argue that if you were to "commoditize" the indian motorcycle there would not be a great deal of difference between the two (assuming the same source for the parts and the same source for the labour). 
So, for arguments sake lets say that Kymco did an Indian knock off further down the track - you know, looks like a duck, quacks like a duck etc and both were made in the Asian marketplace and marketed across the world.  The Kymco bike was $20,000 and the Indian was $40,000 - which would you buy - the only discernable difference is the name on the tank (we can't even say design differences considering Indian are somewhat copying their competitors).  They all will have the same warranties in this country (for what they are worth), presumably they will all have the same build quality, the parts are sourced from the same manufacturers - I think people will be hard pressed to decide on an Indian (sadly) because there would not be any real justification behind the decision. 

For me, this is the bigger picture.  There will always be people that defend the brand (and for that I admire them) but for me it is what Polaris does with the brand and how they progress it.  In reality, I paid $40,000 for my bike, each year it depreciates as I use it - I think I worked out it is by approximately $5000 per annum so over a 8 year period the bike will be relatively worthless (as a trade in).  Traditionally I would trade my machine in at about 40k kms before it depreciated too much in value but I am now concerned that the "value" of the machine is being watered down and as a result I will be keeping mine until its expiry date unless I get an offer I can't refuse - but it would have to be bloody good (this is just my personal view of course).
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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V-Twin
1854cc wrote:
Someone explain to me why American assembled is better then assembled in Poland.
Baross wrote:
We are all humans - the location of manufacture doesn't matter if people are trained to do the job well.
I don’t believe we are referring to the quality.  If that was the case, Indian Motorcycle assembled in Japan or Germany might be better built than the US made.  😆

For me, it is the romance of owning a modern day Indian.  The Indian brand, like Harley, is about the nostalgia, Americana, the freedom road, etc.,  That is Indian’s marketing message as well... “The America’s oldest motorcycle company” and “America’s first motorcycle company”.  Take a look at their history page -  https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/history/  Seems mighty proud of ‘being American’.

Ideally, I want to see 100% of the motorcycle components made in USA, and then assembled in USA, but that is not what happened since the brand resurrection.  So what makes Indian Motorcycle, ‘American’?  It is Spirit Lake Iowa.  If that is switched to Opole, Poland... that is no longer an American Motorcycle to me.  It might as well be assembled in Africa, India, Pakistan or China (nothing against any of those counties - my point is, any country ‘outside USA’).

How about the economics?  If the bikes are built in Poland, presumably future Indians are built cheaper than in Spirit Lake?  Will the cost saving be passed on to us?  No way!  Polaris is cutting cost every year eroding the quality of final products.  Add to that, invisible price rises - 2019 Springfield Dark Horse lost $2,500 worth of accessories (no windshield, no engine guards, no rear guards) compared to 2018 Springfield Dark Horse, and on top of that, their price went up $500.  So the 2019 Springfield buyer is $3,000 worse off.  

The reason we paid big bucks was to buy a ‘premium’ motorcycle made in US of A.  Now, that’s going to change too?  So all we have is ‘Designed in USA’.  Maybe that will change too, one day?  Maybe the design team will move to Thailand.  But it is still American motorcycle company, right?  The design team is American.  Maybe Polaris decide that paying for Americans to live in Thailand is too expensive and sack them all.  But that’s okay, Polaris is listed on US stock exchange so that makes it American.  🙈

Like Harley-Davidson, Indian will never try to sell their motorcycles assembled outside USA to Americans.  They will reject them.  Even though I am not an American, I am rejecting them too.  There is a reason why Harley is only importing their entry level Street 500 sold for $10,000 from India to Australia.  They know Australians would dump Harley brand if they tried to sell Indian 🇮🇳 made Street Glides in Oz.

How many people would buy a Rolex watch made in Hong Kong?  Or Jack Daniels bottled in Turkey?  Surely all the plants around the world would follow the same procedures, processes and meet the same quality standards.
Let's be kind to one another.
Melbourne, Victoria
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CHF10

Manufacturing in Poland seems to me to be specifically to the EU market. Makes sense as Poland is in the EU. US Trade with Australia hasn't been as affected as trade with the EU so making assumptions based on speculation (and it is speculation as Polaris has only said they're CONSIDERING it) is premature.

I also think it's all a bit of a ruse. Using the tariffs as an excuse to move overseas simply to save costs, as we've all noticed they seem to like to do. In everything I have read, the comments from Polaris is "we're facing higher costs". Fine, that doesn't relate to tariffs in the EU (or any other country). Tariffs affect the purchase prices in other countries but not the costs in the USA of manufacturing the bikes. Looks at cars, Australians pay over $100,000 for an E-Series Mercedes but it's just a taxi in Germany. We consider it a premium product because it's German and "prestige" when in fact the reason we pay more is the cost of importing it in the first place. Polaris are making excuses to find a cheaper labour force. And for a lot of manufacturing, that's fine. But when you're talking about products that have a reputation as being "all American" you have to tread VERY carefully.

Everyone here has an all American motorcycle... So there's nothing for us to worry about at the moment anyway. If for whatever BS reason Polaris say, they move manufacturing out of America, they'll start to watch their sales decline. And we'll all start considering any number of the other BETTER non-US brands.

*shrug*

Live free or die!
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Baross
The Royal Enfield/Polaris concept cruiser can be seen here:
Looks like an interesting bike with a nice motor.

We probably wont get Polish made Indians here because we currently have a free trade agreement with the USA. This probably makes them cheaper to buy here than otherwise. Making them in the EU would be an astute move for sales in Europe given the trade war and tariffs that the US President has embarked on.
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CHF10

Baross wrote:
We probably wont get Polish made Indians here because we currently have a free trade agreement with the USA.

Yup! That's what I was trying to say above.

Baross wrote:
This probably makes them cheaper to buy here than otherwise. Making them in the EU would be an astute move for sales in Europe given the trade war and tariffs that the US President has embarked on.

It's not a war. He simply wants a fairer/better deal for Americans - and that's his job. People seem to forget that. It's hilarious (and sad) that a President who wants things better for America and Americans is constantly condemned in the media, yet one that for 8 years only made things WORSE in the media was (and still is) loved by so many.

Live free or die!
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crash
CHF10 wrote:

But when you're talking about products that have a reputation as being "all American" you have to tread VERY carefully.



Politics aside (and there are only two views - mine and everyone else's), what you have just so eloquently indicated is the guts of this thread.  And what we have read is that they may be going to sell American motorcycles to the American market and foreign motorcycles to the foreign market - now how that pans out for overseas sales remains to be seen.  
If they sell American machines in Australia because of trade agreements and tariffs then that is a good thing for us - if not then it becomes a more open market and the buyers (as has been mentioned before) will vote with their wallets.

It is pure speculation and conjecture on our part.  However, no one can say that we have not let our feelings known before the decisions were made - now if we had any weight in our feelings then that would be awesome but as we all sadly realise, we are a small (no, tiny) fish in a huge pond (or maybe ocean) and our opinions do not even rate as a blip on the company radar when it comes to making decisions about this type of stuff. 
But what this thread does say is that as a cross section of the Indian owners demographic in Australia, this type of decision may not be met with the same enthusiasm as is being seen by the mothership (not all of us granted - and rightfully for a discussion there is a healthy mix of differing opinions).

Lets see how this pans out 😃
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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CHF10

crash wrote:
what we have read is that they may be going to sell American motorcycles to the American market and foreign motorcycles to the foreign market

You mean EU motorcycles to the EU market.

Live free or die!
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CHF10

We all know that Polaris read online community pages, forums, FB groups etc. There's likely a very considered reason for announcing they're "considering" something.

Remember what they did with the FTR1200 concept? If reactions had have been different, it may not have made it to production.

Live free or die!
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crash
CHF10 wrote:

 

You mean EU motorcycles to the EU market.



No, I mean foreign motorcycles for the foreign market - the original thread was about vehicles built in india, this has now progressed to EU and who knows where it may end up.  (where the definition of foreign means overseas) - if it is a machine made outside of the USA it is foreign made - still owned by a USA company granted.
Ulysses #30673
IMRG #AU100394
Current: RoadMaster (ebony and ivory)
Highett Victoria Australia
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CHF10
It's all speculation until it's officially released from Polaris.
Live free or die!
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V-Twin
CHF10 wrote:
It's all speculation until it's officially released from Polaris.
If this concerns any future buyers of FTR-1200, ask your dealer ‘Which country’ they are built in and if they say, USA, have it written in the sales contract.  Something like, “This FTR-1200 is fully assembled in United States of America.”

If you don’t care where your next Indian is made, buy without a care in the world. 😀
Let's be kind to one another.
Melbourne, Victoria
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CHF10
Absolutely 100%!!! People get burnt so often by not having everything put in the sales contract.
Live free or die!
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Dr.Shifty
V-Twin wrote:
Will you buy an Indian Motorcycle assembled in Poland??? 


If they included a bottle of touch up wax would it be Polish Polish?
Cheers, Kim.

From Woodrising (no, nobody else has heard of it either)
Rides a Springfield Dark Horse
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V-Twin
Dr.Shifty wrote:
If they included a bottle of touch up wax would it be Polish Polish?
😳🙈 Walking away quietly, not making eye contact. 😆
Let's be kind to one another.
Melbourne, Victoria
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